German universities --Mediocre

choi

German universities | Between Great and So-So; Not in the elite but improving, German universities bet on a middle way. Economist, Dec 13, 2014.
www.economist.com/news/europe/21 ... een-great-and-so-so

Note:
(a) "Their [of college students in Germany] best hope of seeing professors is through opera glasses."

opera glasses
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opera_glasses

(b) "Only a couple of German universities make it into the top 50: Heidelberg’s Ruprecht-Karls-University and Munich’s Ludwig-Maximilians-University usually lead the pack."
(i) For Ruprecht-Karls-University, see Heidelberg University
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heidelberg_University
(public; Founded in 1386, it is the oldest university in Germany; Rupert I, Elector Palatine established the university when Heidelberg was the capital of the Electoral Palatinate)

Quote: "This decline did not stop until 1803, when the university was reestablished as a state-owned institution by Karl Friedrich, Grand Duke of Baden, to whom the part of the Palatinate situated on the right bank of the Rhine was allotted. Since then, the university bears his name together with the name of Ruprecht I."

(ii) "Rupert is derived from the Latin Rupertus, which is a loan from the Old German Hroberahtus."  Wikipedia under this name. Norman Conquest brought its French form "Robert" to England.  Wikipedia
(iii)
(A) "A palatine or palatinus (in Latin; plural palatini; cf derivative spellings below) is a high-level official attached to imperial or royal courts in Europe since Roman times."  Wikipedia, citing Oxford English Dictionary.
(B) palatine (n or adj; from French palatin, from Latin palātum palate)
www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/palatine
(C) Electoral Palatinate
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_Palatinate
(1085–1803; capital: Heidelberg > Düsseldorf > Mannheim)
(iv) Romantic Heidelberg!  journey-to-germany.com, undated
www.journey-to-germany.com/heidelberg.html
(paragraph 4)
(v)
(A) Baden
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baden
(section 1 History)
(B) Baden
www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/baden
("The name (meaning 'baths') refers to the warm mineral springs, particularly in the town of Baden-Baden, valued since Roman times")

(c) Ludwig-Maximilians-University of Munich
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludwig_Maximilian_University_of_Munich
(public; established in 1472 by Duke Ludwig IX of Bavaria-Landshut; In 1802, the university was officially named Ludwig-Maximilians-Universität by King Maximilian I of Bavaria in his as well as the university's original founder's honour)

Quote: The University of Munich has, particularly since the 19th century, been considered as one of Germany's as well as one of Europe's most prestigious universities; with 34 Nobel laureates associated with the university, it ranks 13th worldwide by number of Nobel laureates. Among these were Wilhelm Röntgen, Max Planck, Werner Heisenberg, Otto Hahn ['Nobel Prize in Chemistry in 1944 for the discovery of nuclear fission' (sole recipient)] and Thomas Mann [1929 Nobel Prize in Literature].

(d) “If this trend continues, Mr Zupanc suggests, it could amount to a German Mittelweg (middle path [or middle course, middle ground]) in higher education.”
(i) German English dictionary
* baden (verb): “to swim; to take a bath”
   (noun neuter): “bathing, swimming”
dict.tu-chemnitz.de/dings.cgi?lang=en&service=deen&opterrors=0&optpro=0&query=baden&iservice=&comment=&email=
* Weg (noun masculine): "way"
* Herr (noun masculine): “lord [as in the Lord God]; gentleman [as in Ladies and Gentlemen]; master; mister [as in Herr Schneider Mr Schneider]; sir [as in Excuse me, sir]”
dict.tu-chemnitz.de/dings.cgi?lang=en&service=deen&opterrors=0&optpro=0&query=herr&iservice=&comment=&email=
* Doktor (noun masculine): "doctor"
(ii) Compare
Mittelstand (noun masculine): "middle class [in the society]; mid-tier (business), small business(es), small and medium-sized companies"
dict.tu-chemnitz.de/dings.cgi?lang=en&service=deen&opterrors=0&optpro=0&query=mittelstand
  * stand (noun masculine): "level"
  dict.tu-chemnitz.de/dings.cgi?lang=en&service=deen&opterrors=0&optpro=0&query=stand&iservice=&comment=&email=

(e) “In 1810 Wilhelm von Humboldt, a Prussian son of the enlightenment, founded the University of Berlin (now Humboldt University) * * * And it [Humboldt’s ideas] led to more than a century of excellence at German universities, which for many years were the best in the world and produced thinkers from Hegel to Planck. This golden age was destroyed by the Nazis.”
(i) Wilhelm von Humboldt
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_von_Humboldt
(1767 – 1835; diplomat)
(ii) Humboldt University of Berlin
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humboldt_University_of_Berlin
(In 1949, it changed its name from [University of Berlin] to Humboldt-Universität in honour of both its founder Wilhelm and his brother, geographer[/naturalist] Alexander von Humboldt)
(iii) Max Planck
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Planck
(1858 – 1947; was a German theoretical physicist who originated quantum theory, which won him the Nobel Prize in Physics in 1918)

(f) “After 1945, West German universities revived the stuffy bits but without the excellence. Only the idolising of titles survived: even outside academia, Germans insist on being addressed with the full mouthful of ‘Herr Professor Doktor.’”

For notations, see next TWO postings.

(g) But Germany knows that higher education needs to improve. One push has, since 1999, come from the European Union’s Bologna process, which has made the German system more compatible internationally, replacing traditional degrees with bachelors’ and masters’.
(i) Bologna process "is named after the place it was proposed, the University of Bologna" in 1999. Wikipedia
(ii) I went to the official website: Bologna Process-- European Higher Education Area
www.ehea.info
, and read "How does the Bologna Process work?"  (in the pulled-down menu from "about bologna process" in the left column) and still do not understand a thing.

choi

(1) Behave Yourself in Berlin. Economist, May 1, 2008 (blog)
www.economist.com/blogs/gulliver ... _yourself_in_berlin
(“FOR years the etiquette tips on Economist.com’s Cities Guide helped businessmen avoid pratfalls on their trips abroad. * * * Germans like to be called by titles, such as doctor or professor, and will prove much friendlier if you appear to appreciate their educational credentials. Should they hold more than one title, use all of them”)

readers’ comment (latest first, read from the bottom one first):

apoll0n May 13th 2008: "The titles thing: Do NOT ever use multiple titles as it will be seen as a sarcastic mockery! In my entire life, I´ve never heard anyone being addressed as 'Herr Professor Doktor Doktor Meier' - and I´ve spent 7 years attending Berlin´s universities. However, since other readers seem to have diverging experiences I´d be curious to know where they ever heard that? What you do is to use the highest-ranking title once, i.e. ‘Herr Professor’ or ‘Herr Doktor’, but never both. And more often than not, the addressed person will immediately ask you to not use that title anymore but rather call him by his family name or even forename. It´s a gesture of respect the first time you meet someone really.Accordingly, it has to be said that etiquette varies widely between industries. The media and advertising scene in Berlin is extremely casual. I should think that it´s even more casual than in London, since salaries are lower and hierarchies even flatter.

My Rolex gains 1min every week May 14th 2008: "My experience of 6 years in Frankfurt in the banking industry tells me that you can address somebody by their first name if speaking English as the Germans in Frankfurt accept this as a US/UK address method. Likewise, if I was speaking German, I would use the German titles. This is not to say its correct, but whenever I called somebody Mr or Dr in English we swapped to first names immediately, if I did it in German, we'd be on Herr X all the time. I do feel this is industry specific however and would not try it in the BMW factory.  It is also worth noting that Germans graduate university at around the age of 26, and get their Phd's around 32 (corrections welcome, I'm a bit rusty). As a consequence, when dealing with a German Dr in the banking industry, feel free to assume that he's got 3 months less experience than your intern but he's really really good at theory.

rlaughton May 17th 2008: "Interesting to read the response from a Berliner, so we can assume factual. It may be that my associate is an academic and so he much prefers to hear the words 'Herr Professor' rather than 'Herr Doktor' although in fact he is truly 'Herr Professor Doktor'. But as others have said, that is in business, and outside the office (where others are listening) it can quickly move to a first name basis. That is what I found quite unique, that you used a different title at work, at lunch, at the pub and at the home. Here in Canada if we know 'Fred' we tend to always call him 'Fred' and not Herr Professor Doctor Frederick Himmel, Dr. Himmel, Herr Himmel, Frederick and Fred. I myself think it is great that we can see, hear and learn from these different approaches. And thank you 'My Lady' for you kind comments.  Richard (without my titles)

I am a Berliner May 17th 2008: "Having several titles by myself (I am a Professor Dr. Dr. Dipl-Math.) I can probably solve the title-puzzle. When writing a letter it is customary to use all titles in the adress box. When writing emails or talking to people one usually uses only the highest degree unless people say that even a 'Herr Löffler [Löffler being a surname]' instead of 'Herr Professor Löffler' is ok. The older generation in universities tend to expect the use of the 'Professor', the younger generation considers this just as a job title. In my opinion the 'Professor' is much more use in the southern states of Germany. In Industry-people are proud of their Dr-achievement and hence want that not to be disregarded.

pen-ny May 13th 2008: "As a German, not a Berliner, I rediscover German mentality through the eyes of foreign business travelers: I have never experienced anybody to address Professor Dr. Dr. honoris causa addressed in this way; may be times are changing - I feel they are changing the other direction! * * *

Bill.C May 14th, 2008: "Seems not everyone shares my (and the Economist writer's) experience with the multiple titles bit. I can only say: it's repeated experience, not hearsay. I've been corrected quite huffily for reducing three titles to one simple Dr. (context: pharmaceuticals industry and again at a university). I'm glad to hear not everyone is as uptight about it as a few of the characters I have run into. But a traveller is still well advised to know that this can happen, to err on the side of caution and to be relieved if a less formal form of address is offered.


My comment: This is about etiquette in Germany. Thus "Herr Professor Doktor" is indeed a professor with one doctoral degree.

choi

(2) Craig Whitlock and Shannon Smiley, Non-European PhDs In Germany Find Use Of 'Doktor' Verboten. Washington Post, Mar 14, 2008
www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... R2008031304353.html

Quote:

"Under a little-known Nazi-era law, only people who earn PhDs or medical degrees in Germany are allowed to use 'Dr' as a courtesy title. The law was modified in 2001 to extend the privilege to degree-holders from any country in the European Union. But docs from the United States and anywhere else outside Europe are still forbidden to use the honorific. Violators can face a year behind bars.

"Those with advanced degrees like to show them off, and it is not uncommon to earn more than one. A male faculty member with two PhDs [a German PhD in biology told me it took three years to get it] can fully expect to be called 'Herr Professor Dr Dr Schmidt,' for example.

Note:
(a) verboten (adj; German; First Known Use 1916)
www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/verboten

Distinguish verbose (adj; ultimately from Latin noun ] verbum word)
www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/verbose


(3) Brian Melican, Trust Him He's a Doctor... and a Professor... and an Engineer; Our guest columnist takes a tongue-in-cheek look at the German obsession with letters after your name . Daily Telegraph, May 1, 2013,,
www.telegraph.co.uk/expat/contri ... nd-an-engineer.html

Note:
(a) "Life in Germany often reminds me of early 1990s Hythe in Kent, where my grandmother used to * * * call everyone not in her immediate friendship circle by their second name [surname]."
(i) Hythe, Kent
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hythe,_Kent
(ii) hythe (n): "(British, archaic) a small harbour or landing-place"
www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/hithe
(b) "It’s not just matters of simple courtesy like calling your Ärztin 'Dr Yilmaz' while she’s got her torch in your ear or saying 'Herr Polizist' to the man asking you to produce identification with his left hand on his gun holster"

English dictionary:
torch (n): "a small portable electric lamp powered by one or more dry batteries US and Canadian word: flashlight"
www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/torch

(c) German English dictionary
* Ärztin (noun feminine; Arzt is the masculine form): "female doctor or physician"
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Ärztin
* Polizist (noun masculine): "policeman"
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Polizist
* Diplomingenieur (noun masculine): "an engineer's degree given in several countries (replaced by the Bologna process by Bachelor of Engineering and Master of Engineering)”
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Diplomingenieur
  * Diplom (noun neuter): "diploma"
  * Ingenieur (noun masculine; borrowed from French [noun masculine] ingénieur engineer): "engineer"
  en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Ingenieur
* Brückenbauer (noun masculine): “bridgebuilder”
www.dict.cc/german-english/Br%C3%BCckenbauer.html
  * Brücke (noun feminine; Plural  Brücken; from Old High German brucca (akin to Old Saxon bruggia)): "bridge"
  en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Brücke
  * Bauer (noun masculine): "farmer"
  en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Bauer
  * Brückenbau (noun masculine): "bridge building; bridge construction"
  dict.tu-chemnitz.de/dings.cgi?lang=en&service=deen&opterrors=0&optpro=0&query=Br%FCckenbau&iservice=&comment=&email=
  bau (noun masculine): "building [as in adjacent building]; structure; construction, building)
  dict.tu-chemnitz.de/dings.cgi?lang=en&service=deen&opterrors=0&optpro=0&query=bau&iservice=&comment=&email=
* Schornsteinfeger (noun masculine; from [noun masculine] Schornstein chimney +‎ fegen to sweep)
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Schornsteinfeger
* meister (noun masculine): “champion; master [as in master craftsman]”

(d) “Secretaries at companies spend hours scratching their heads and searching Google to find out if the person they are writing to is a Diplom-Ingenieur (engineer) so that they can address him as ‘Herr Dipl.-Ing. Brückenbauer’”

The title “Herr Dipl.-Ing. Brückenbauer” indicates an engineer, with that degree, who participates in bridge construction.

(e) “housewives of a nervous disposition ring up utilities companies to find out if the person coming round to check their flues is a simple Schornsteinfeger (chimney sweep) or needs to be addressed as Herr Meister-Schornsteinfeger.”
(i) It took me an hour to find out the meaning of “Herr Meister-” and when the title is used, which literally means “lord master.”
(ii) German to English handwriting. Axis History Forum, Jan 4, 2009.
forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=147817
(A) German English dictionary
* Mailermeister (noun masculine): "master painter"
dict.tu-chemnitz.de/dings.cgi?lang=en&service=deen&opterrors=0&optpro=0&query=Malermeister&iservice=&comment=&email=
* Maler (noun masculine): "painter"
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Maler
(B) a.s.o. = and so on
(iii) My conclusion: Herr Meister- = master craftsman